Primary source texts
Primary Source 1
Excerpts from an interview with Hasaan
Jump to particular excerpts: Excerpt 1 / Excerpt 2 / Excerpt 3 / Excerpt 4 / Excerpt 5 / Excerpt 6
Click here for explanation of symbols used in the transcriptions.
There is a reading activity for Excerpt 1 in Unit Two, and for the remaining Excerpts in Unit Three.
Excerpt 1
| 1 | KATRINA; | Tayari? |
| 2 | HASAAN; | Yes. |
| 3 | KATRINA; | Jina lako ni nani? |
| 4 | HASAAN; | Ni Hasaan Farouk. |
| 5 | KATRINA; | Ulizaliwa wapi? |
| 6 | HASAAN; | Hapa Zanzibar. |
| 7 | KATRINA; | Mwaka gani? |
| 8 | HASAAN; | A, mwaka sidhani najua kwa sababu nimekuwa adopted. Na pia sizungumzi sana habari ya mwaka wangu lakini ni— |
| 9 | KATRINA; | Mimi pia. @@@ |
| 10 | HASAAN; | I don’t know. Yah, I cannot say. @ @ Si mdogo, yah. |
Excerpt 2
| 1 | KATRINA; | Umesikia nini kuhusu popobawa? | |
| 2 | HASAAN; | A:::, nime::— Nilikuwa sina interesting sa:na kuhusu popobawa lakini baada ya kuingia mambo ya culture, unajua mimi ni kama culture expert. Nimefuatilia kidogo kuhusu— Popobawa ninavyoijua mie imeanza kutokea mwaka elfu moja mia tisa na sabini. Ilitoke:a Pemba. Na::: nafikiri ilikuwa Kibirinzi. Yah, Kibirinzi ilitokea. Na ilivyotokea, a:h, ilivuma sana mpaka hapa. Kuna watu walishtuka sana. Na mimi niliweza kusikia kwa majirani zangu wa Ki- wa Kipemba. Nilianza kusikia hii na walinishtusha. Unaona? Ni- nilishangaa. Na niliogopa. Unaona? Kwa vile nilikuwa mdogo ili- ilinishtusha. <VOX>Ni nini popobawa?</VOX> Nilikuwa namuimagine kama atakuwa popo mkubwa labda anakula watu. | Kibirinzi – a village on Pemba island |
| 3 | Lakini nikasikia hali watu, anawalawiti watu. Nilisikia wanawa:ke, wanau:me, wazee, wato:to, nilistaj- nilikuwa na maswali. | -lawiti ‘practice pederasty’ (The Kamusi Project), ‘commit sodomy’ (Johnson 1999: 242), ‘ingilia mtu kwa tupu ya nyuma; fira’ (Ndalu 2015, 179) |
Excerpt 3
| 1 | Hasaan;
|
Nilikuwa mdadisi mimi, nikijiuliza maswali mengi. […]Mie sie mtu kuogopa mashetani, lakini niliHOfu sometime. Nili- niliku- nilitamani kukutana naye. Yah. Nilihofu. Iko wakati nilihofu, la nilitaka kuona, nilitaka kuexperience. Ya:h Lakini baadaye niliamini kama hawako kwa hivyo sikuogopa tena. Yah, lakini nilikuwa na::— ni kama nilikuwa— | mdadisi ‘inquisitive, impertinent person’ (The Kamusi Project), ‘a curious, inquisitive, prying person’ (Johnson 1999: 68) |
| 2 | Time ile nilikuwa baleghe. Nilikuwa napenda kujua zaidi. <VOX>Vipi wanarape watu?</VOX> | baleghe 9/10 & 1/2 (also balehe) ‘pubescent person’ (note also used below as 9/10 ‘puberty’) | |
| 3 | Sasa na mimi nilikuwa nimechuchia katika, katika baleghe yangu. Nilikuwa najiuliza maswala mengi. | chuchia ‘move to and fro, shake; call spirits into the head during an exorcism; rock a child to sleep’ [here metaphorical, perhaps something like ‘I was shaken, disturbed’] | |
| 4 | Na tulikuwa hakuna mtu ambaye anatujibia maswala kwa hivyo ni:- nilizongwa sana. | zongwa ‘be perplexed’ | |
| 5 | Na Karume alikwenda Pemba, alikataza. Alisema si kweli na alikwenda Pemba: siku mbili, huko Kibirinzi. Kama nilivyosikia. Huwa alikwenda kulala kule, ku- kumngoja popobawa. Sijui alikuwa na @interest @gani, la@kini ali@kwenda. Nafikiri ilikuwa ni njia moja alikwenda kupinga haya mambo, yah. | Karume was the first president of Zanzibar after independence. |
Excerpt 4
| 1 | HASAAN; | Nilikuwa nawekwa juu tu for family reasons kwa hivyo nilikuwa natumia space ku:bwa, na nilikuwa naenda skuli ya Forodhani, na watu wengi walichagawa, walipata mashetani. Lakini mimi ah. Skuli walipata, lakini mimi si- Na watu wengi walitishika kwa sababu nilikuwa nakaa skuli ya Forodhani peke yangu. Nakaa najizungumza, nasoma, na utafuti mwingi nimeuona pale skuli, kwa sababu nimeona vitabu vingi, nimeona picha nyingi. Yah. Nilifaidika kwa kuwa sikuogopa sana. Na huko wakati aliwahi kuja bundi katika nyumba. Ilibidi tuondoke sote twende zetu: kwa shekhe. Alikuja bundi. Bundi ni ol? owl?, yah. Alikuja. Ilibidi tuondoke katika nyumba. Halafu mimi ninaye sista yangu, anapenda sana mambo ya mashetani, anali- aliitilia mkazo. Ya:h, na sometime alipandisha. Na kwa vile siogopi walifikiri mimi nina shetani mkali sana, ya:h. Hala:fu, popobawa, a:h, aliwahi ku- Nasikia, aliwahi kuja hapa kwa NGOto. Ngoto ni mtaa pale Mtendeni. Yah, kwa Ngoto. Inaitwa kwa Ngoto. Aliwahi kuja. Nafikiri kwa bi mmoja, Bi Malaika, aliwahi— Ni— Ambaye— Ilitisha sana watu wengi kwa sababu ni mtu aliyekuwa maarufu. Na ilikuwa tayari ishafika mjini, na watu wengi wali- waliogopa. | chagawa ‘be possessed’
Owls and other flying animals (like bats) are associated with the spirit world and thus many Swahili people fear them. |
| 2 | KATRINA; | Bi Malaika alikuwa mtu wa Pemba? | |
| 3 | HASAAN; | A-a! Nafikiri, ah, Bi Malaika alikuwa mtu wa Unguja. Ndo maana iliwashtua watu wengi. Lakini hizi rumors zilianza Pemba. | |
| 4 | KATRINA; | Ulisema zilianza Pemba lini tena? | |
| 5 | HASAAN; | Elfu moja mia tisa na sabini. | |
| 6 | KATRINA; | Na zimekuja tena na tena? | |
| 7 | HASAAN; | Zilikuja lakini mimi nilivyokuwa nilikuwa siko ilipokuja. Isipokuwa mara ya mwisho hapa recently? Ya, ambayo sisi tulifanya gofu ya popobawa nilikuweko, yah. Na nini nimelearn? Nimelearn kuwa ni— Mi nimefikiria mimi, nafikiria popobawa. Nafikiri watu huwa hawana la kufanya, ni moja. Kuwa bored. Kwa sababu watu wengi wa Zanzibar, wengine, hasa wanawake, hawana la kufanya. Wakishamaliza maneno wanatafuta la kufanya. Huwa wanamsema mtu mwingine, ama wana- wana- wanaarise things. Halafu pia wanawake wengi wanachagawa, wanapata shetani. Ile ni control. Unaona? Ni control. Wanaweza, wanawacontrol waume zao kwa shetani. Kwa sababu inaruhusiwa yeye kwenda kama disco, kwenda harusi:ni, anapata pete ya dhahabu, anakuwa na nini. Ya:h. Hata anaweza kuolewa, pia wanatumia excuse ile kuolewa. Ikiwa boyfriend hataki kumwoa, anafanya shetani. Kwa hivyo vile boyfriend anaweza kuogopa. Anamwambia <VOX>Nakufuatilia. Lazima umwoe kiti changu.</VOX> | gofu 9/10 ‘golf’ (A gay American expatriate who had lived in Zanzibar for many years at the time of our interview—referred to by the pseudonym Lankton in Excerpt 5 below—used to regularly host parties that he called ‘golf parties’ because guests played golf, possibly on the roof patio of his large home. At the particular party Hasaan references here, they jokingly tried to ‘call’ Popobawa to visit them. The American described it to me as mwito wa popobawa.)
kiti 7/8 Someone possessed by a spirit is known as that’s spirit’s ‘chair’ because the spirit ‘sits’ in/on that person |
| 8 | Kwa hivyo, wanatumia wanawake kama control sana kuwadhibiti wanaume. Yah. | dhibiti ‘protect; control; manage’ | |
| 9 | Ya, kuna sababu nyingi. Kuna sababu moja nafikiri ni nyege. Kuwa kwanza hawapati wanaume wa kutosha, yah. Moja hiyo. Ya pili wanakuwa boring, yah. Kwa sababu wanawake wengi hawatosheleki, ha:na wanaume. Yah, kwa hivyo wanaleta— wanakuja na habari za mashetani. Hawa- hawaridhiki. Hata wakati mwingine unaona katika nyuso zao, ya. Ni mwanamume tu ambaye akishakojoa, ni basi. Lakini wanawake hawa- hawafaidiki na::: ile nini. Hawa- hawafaidiki na:: ile sex. Siyo kama zamani, unaona? Kwa sababu wanaume sasa hivi hawafundishwi sex. Ni wanawake tu. Kwa hivyo ni wa- wanawake. Kwa hivyo wanawake hawafaidiki. Na wanaume, hakuna mtu ambaye anawafunDIsha. | nyege 9/10 ‘sexual desire’
kojoa ‘urinate; ejaculate; orgasm’ (here ‘ejaculate, orgasm’) |
|
| 10 | KATRINA; | Kama somo? | somo 9/10 ‘pre-marital puberty and sex instructor’ (usually a female instructor assigned to girls) |
| 11 | HASAAN; | Ah, ilikuwa kila mtu ana somo yake. Kila mtu anapewa, ehe. Ana somo yake, anafundishwa, au babu, ama— Mimi siku hizi nimechukua hii nafasi na nijaribu kufanya. Kuwafahamisha baadhi ya wanawake, kama mtu wa culture actually. Ya:h. | |
| 12 | KATRINA; | Unawafundisha wanawake au wanaume? | |
| 13 | HASAAN; | Wanaume, ya:h. Vipi kusatisfy. Siyo kama yeye akishakojoa basi. Kwa hivyo ile ni tatizo moja ambayo wanahisi kama yuko shetani. Kwa sababu wanakuwa hawajaridhika, ya:h. |
Excerpt 5
In between Excerpts 4 and 5, Hasaan talked about how the government uses rumors about things like Popobawa to distract people from more important issues. I’ve left this part out because it’s not relevant to this module’s focus on gender and sexuality, but it is mentioned in passing in line 3 below. Our interview took place just a few weeks after Michael Jackson’s death, which he references in line 10.
| 1 | KATRINA; | Kwa nini watu wanafikiri anapenda kuwaingilia? | |
| 2 | HASAAN; | Yes, yah. | |
| 3 | KATRINA; | Kama ni matumizi ya serikali au nini wangeweza kutumia shetani yo yote. Si lazima awabake watu. | –baka ‘rape’ |
| 4 | HASAAN: | M-hmmm. Sasa iko same. Maanake popobawa yuko, kila mmoja anamchukulia anavyotaka. Gays wanapata time ya kuarise. Pale wanapata time ya kulala na wanaume. Anapata time ya kuadvertise. Anapata time ya kuzungumza openly, kwa sababu magays hapa hawana room ya kuzungumza. Kwa hivyo pale ndo wanapata time ya, ya kusema. Unaona? Yah. Anasema <VOX>Ah mimi nimebakwa, yah, ilikuwa nzuri</VOX>. Yah, anaweza kusema kama vile. Ushafahamu eh? | |
| 5 | KATRINA; | Sawa. | |
| 6 | HASAAN; | Kila mtu anapata kuzungumza habari ya:— magays, tuseme magays wanazungumza wakiwa marikiti, kama utani, unaona? Na wakati wa popobowa wengi wao wanaarise. Habari nyingi za magays zinakuwa openly, unaona? Na kila mmoja anasema <VOX>Mi nishawahi, kumbe nzuri</VOX>. Unaona? Yah, <VOX>Nimependa</VOX>. Unaona? <VOX>Mi nataka</VOX>. Unaona? Kwa hivyo this ni njia moja ya wao ku- ku— | utani 14 ‘joking relationship’ |
| 7 | KATRINA; | Lakini wanasema tu, siyo kwamba wanaamini kwamba popobawa— ? | |
| 8 | HASAAN; | Yah, ni njia ya kuweza kunini. Unaona? Yah, ni njia ambayo ya kuweza kujiadvertise, kama yeye anapenda. You know? Yah. Kwa sababu wanazo mbinu zao, tuseme kama kutia rangi kwenye kucha moja, Unaona? Wanayo signs zao, wapi wanakutana na ile moja ya kujiadvertise, kwa sababu hapa kupata mwanamume ni kazi ngumu, unataka kuadvertise watu kujua, kwa sababu, you have to act like a man, you have to marry sometime, lakini ile ndiyo sababu peke yake ya yeye kujiadvertise. Na wao utawaona we:ngi sana. Kwa sababu mimi nilitembea sana kuona, wengi sana wana- wananini. Wengine wanasema <VOX>Bora nivue nguo niwe, nikae tayari asije akaniumiza</VOX>. Unaona? Kwa hivyo there’s a lot— | |
| 9 | Na watu wengi wanalala nje, ni njia ya kukutana. Hata kama mtu anaweza kumwacha mke wake akaenda nje, wanalala nje. Unasikia? | Here Hasaan is referring to a common trope in Popobawa narratives: that spending the night outside in groups is a way to prevent Popobawa attacks. | |
| 10 | Yah, ile popobawa moja, pale Kibanda Maiti mtu alifumaniwa na mumewe. Alilala na jirani. Yeye na mumewe wote walilala nje kumbe yule alikuwa anasex na jirani. Asubuh- mpaka asubuhi kumbe walilala, walifumaniwa, kama walisex. Na njia ambayo watu wengi wanakuwa very— Ni wanapenda sana. Na waandishi wa habari pia wanauza habari kwa hivyo wanaikuza zaidi wao, kwa sababu ni— Hakuna la kuzungumza, ni kama habari ya Michael Jackson. Wote wanapenda, saa hivi wanakusanya jambo kubwa la kuzungumza, media wana, wanafurahia sana. Kwa hivyo wanalikuza zai:di. Inawahofisha watu wengi zaidi. | Kibanda Maiti – a neighborhood in Zanzibar Town
-fumaniwa ‘be caught’ |
| 1 | KATRINA; | Ukisema: kuhusu magay maana yako ni mahanithi? | |
| 2 | HASAAN; | Mahanithi, ya:h, yaani wale wanaume wanaolala kwa wana- wanaume wenzao. Unaona? Ya:h. | |
| 3 | KATRINA; | Na kuna wasagaji pia? | |
| 4 | HASAAN; | A:h, no, sio sa:na wao. Yah, sio sana. Sana wanaume. Kwa sababu wao ndio wanasema— Kwa sababu wako magay wengi hapa, lakini hawawezi kuji:express. Kuse—. That is the time to sh- to say, aki:- anaweza kusema openly na watu wote wakanini. Anaweza kus- kusema <VOX>fulani kafanya hivi hivi hivi hivi. Mi bora nivue nguo, nitakuwa hivi na hivi, ah nimekifanya nimependa<VOX>. E:h. Unaona, yah. | |
| 5 | KATRINA; | Wengine wanasema popobawa anakuja kila kipindi fulani. | |
| 6 | HASAAN; | Yah, ya- ya- yanakuja kila msimu fula:ni. Na mimi sijachunguza msimu gani hasa anatokea popobawa. | |
| 7 | KATRINA; | Wengine wanasema ni wakati wa uchaguzi. | |
| 8 | HASAAN; | M-hmm. Inawezekana, yah, inawezekana. Mi sijachunguza ni wakati gani. Yah, ni:: ni:: yah. Kwa hivyo ni watu kwanza hawana la kufanya. A:h gays wanapata, wanasiasa, waandishi wa habari, wanawake waliokuwa hawana nini. Unaona? Halafu uvumi kitu kibaya. Kitu kikivuma hatari. Wana- watu wengi wanapata kuamini. Na watu walikuwa wajinga pia, wale matapeli. Kwa hivyo ni group, pengine, kwa mfano kama serikali imeanza, watu wote wana- wana- wanafurahia. Na anakuwa anavuma sana. Ya:h. Kuna wengine hata magazeti wanamchora maartist. Wanapata kuchora, wanaexpress feelings zao. Ya:h. Na siku mmoja niliwahi kusikia katika redio, watu wawili. Mtu na mke wak:e. Lakini walikataa kum- kumsema vipi. Na kuna watu wengine kila mmoja anasema tofauti yake. Wengine popo, wanasema kama popo anatisha hivi, mwanamume, yuko hivi, ana uchi mkubwa sana. | |
| 9 | Lakini kama ana ule uchi mkubwa hakuna mmoja aliyepelekwa hospitali kama ame- amecha:nwa. Mi sijawahi kusiki:a. Hakuna habari. Wanasema kamjeruhi mtu lakini hakuna mtu ye yote aliyekuwa hospitali ambaye ali- alisema <VOX>Ni mimi nimechanwa na</VOX>. | -chanwa ‘be torn’ | |
| 10 | KATRINA; | Na:: kwa wanawake ambao wanalala na waume zao kwa ka- kwa nini wange##########? | |
| 11 | HASAAN; | Yah. | |
| 12 | KATRINA; | ### kufanya mapenzi— | |
| 13 | HASAAN; | Yah. Nafikiri wana- wengi wao wanataka, (0.4) they are boring, something to talk about because hata watu, watu hapa hawajadiliani mambo ya maana. Kama wewe utafikiria, ni mambo, harusi, <VOX>Kapendeza</VOX>, na nini. | |
| 14 | Sasa wanapata kitu cha kuzungumza: <VOX>Mwanamke akavalia njuga kumfanya mume wake. Umesikia leo? Tume- tume#katesa</VOX> Pia anaweza kumcontrol asitoke. Unaona? Pengine mumewe anachelewa, ni control ya kumfanya arudi mapema, pia inawezekana. | njuga ‘anklet’ | |
| 15 | Na sisi tulifanya:: tulifanya gofu ya popobawa na Lankton. Watu wengi walikatika sana, walisema sana. Na watu wengi wali— Kwa sababu wengi ni magei, wengi walisema na <VOX>Aje, tunamtaka arudi, aje</VOX>. Yah, walifurahia. @ Yah. | ||
| 16 | KATRINA; | Aliniambia hivyo lakini popobowa alikuja akambaka jirani yake. | |
| 17 | HASAAN; | @@@@@@@@@@@@@@Oh God! Naye alikuwa anatamani ku— Lankton mwenyewe alikuwa anatama:ni amwone. Yah, ya:h. Lakini alikuja— Unaona? Yah, yah. Kwa hivyo— Na pengine waliogopa watu, Unaona? Kama psychological, na nini, na watu hapa wanaamini mambo mengi ya ajabu ajabu, ya:h. Ni culture, kwa sababu culture kabla ya Uislamu watu walikuwa wanaabudu. Wakiabudu vitu, unaona? Wakiabudu mzimu, wakiabudu dini zao. | |
| Kwa sababu viko vilingo vingi Zanzibar. Yah, kulikuwa cha, mfano, cha Pungwa Ng’ombe: a::::h Kigali::: Yaani hundred of them, you know. Lakini sasa hivi zote zimepotea zimebaki za Kiarabu. Sasa watu wote wanakuwa Waarabu, na imebaki ya Ki- Kibuki, ambayo Kimadagascar. Ya:h. Na, na umeshawahi kwenda kuona Kibuki? Nataka uende. Kwa sababu Kibuki ni same stories: ni gays na wanawake wanaotaka kuhave a good time, wanataka freedom na kuwacontrol wanaume zao. Ni whats its all about. Like mwanamke akipungwa leo hachukuwi wiki anaolewa, kwa sababu wanasema wanakuwa very sexy you know. Na of course anakuwa kwa sababu anaamini. Na huyu ((points to the waitress)) ni mwanamke ambaye ana- ana- | kilingo 7/8 ‘spirit possession cult’ | ||
| 18 | HASAAN to a WAITRESS; | Hebu njoo! Ati! Lini kutakuwa Kibuki, e? | |
| 19 | WAITRESS; | Wakati wa Ramadhani. | |
| 20 | HASAAN to the WAITRESS; | Ah okay. | |
| 21 | HASAAN to KATRINA; | Ehe, kuna swali lolote lingine? ##, yah. (0.4) Hasa ingekuwa nzuri kuona— | |
| 22 | KATRINA; | Nilisikia— Mtu mmoja ananiambia kwamba ukiingiliwa na popobawa utaanza kuwa gay. | |
| 23 | HASAAN; | A, sikusikia ## Why not? Hiyo ndiyo ndiyo nini ndiyo mipango inakuwa. Tena inakuwa si yeye, ni popobawa kumwanza. Ya:h. Yah, unaona it’s a— yah, they get it, they get it. Ni:: I th- I think ni::: gay wanavalia njuga sana sana sana. Ya:h. Kama wanasema:: Kuna mmoja. Anaitwa Ahmed. Wanasema aliweka::: Alimwekea chakula aje popobawa:: Lakini haji:: @@ Anamwekea chakula, yeye ni big female. Wanasema anampikia, anasema, <VOX>Mbona yeye haji @ja@ma@ni?</VOX> Ya:h. Kwa hivyo ni::: Yah. Ni— Gay wanafurahia sa:na, hiyo ni sherehe ku:bwa sana. | -valia njuga ‘wear noise-making anklet’ (figure of speech used to mean ‘draw attention to oneself’) |
